Ep8: Is it Called 'Impro' or 'Improv'?

The eternal battle between calling improvisation 'impro' or 'improv' finally ends here in this podcast. Why do different groups use one term over another? Are they the same thing? Will Linda be corrupted by James and fall to the 'improv' side? Find out on the latest thrilling episode!

Have a question or Improv related topic you'd like to hear us discuss? Send a short email to LindaTellsJames@gmail.com

A new episode every Tuesday! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

That's well I mean that's my that's a normal reaction to me. I think I think when people are around me they're just like oh it's so funny it's like you're so funny James and I'm crying and maybe something fascinating myself. Hey hi James Hi Lyndon Hello James Welcome everyone welcome back everyone you know I like recording before you're ready because then we can kind of otherwise it's just like it's like you know it's like Clint Eastwood with like the whole he doesn't say you know action because it scares the horses.

SPEAKER_05 0:44

Okay. Well when will the horses know how to they don't know when to start acting?

SPEAKER_02 0:49

Yeah, well he goes He goes okay rolling um He didn't say action Get that peanut butter out of your mouth, Mr.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Ed.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Um Welcome everybody What a bastard I'll eat peanut butter if I want, etc. I was in the Godfather Watch in the Godfather One. I want the stunthead, etc.

SPEAKER_05 1:24

Etc. Um anyway, the reason why don't mention that is because sometimes he presses record and I think he hasn't pressed it, and then I press record, and really what I'm doing is turning the recording off. Yeah, we lost a whole episode. We did, we lost oh no, we didn't. No, we didn't.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Um Welcome everyone.

SPEAKER_05 1:39

Hey, to Linda Tells James, he's wrong about improv.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Yes. Um we're being silly, silly, silly, but um that's acceptable in this podcast, apparently.

SPEAKER_03 1:49

It is well, it's I think we are like this in everyday life. There isn't a microphone in front of us.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

I think it gets worse um when we take the microphone away. I think probably they're loose. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:04

Silliness is rampant.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Yeah, now the silliness is contained. It's contained in a podcast, which is nice. Um, and in this podcast, we chat about improv. We do. Um, we might make a uh statement, we might make an offer or a question, and we'll kind of discuss it. Um and yeah, chat about its merits and what we think about it.

SPEAKER_06 2:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Um today I've got I've got a statement. This is gonna be contentious and personal to you, Linda. So please hold on, hold your seats.

SPEAKER_07 2:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Not impro.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Get out.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

No. Get out. No, because it's improvisation. So it should be improv, not improvisation, impro. Because I've seen it's really interesting, there's kind of an old guard of improvisers in Sydney who call it impro.

SPEAKER_04 2:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

And I think I'm my understanding is there's a there's a kind of history or connection that's fed the words, use the words.

SPEAKER_05 3:09

No, James is dying, everyone. Finally, the show is mine.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Never. Um, yeah, there's this history or connection prior where people used to call it impro, and then for some reason it's it's changed in more recent times to being improv.

SPEAKER_04 3:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Right? Because it's it's like um uh impro Australia. You run the tiny impro co. But we call it improv. So what's your stance on that? Okay. Why do you call it impro?

SPEAKER_05 3:45

Um, it's simple because when improvisation, see how I use the long full word. Oh, the full word, yeah. Um when it's sort of started in it started with Keith Johnstone, and so his book is called Impro. And when Keith teaches theatre sports and his other formats, he he refers to it as impro. So it's really that's how it's always it's been taught. That's the book that re-inspired everyone. Um why why did he and so it's been that it still is called impro in a lot in if you for a lot of people when if you come from that um discipline, if you come from the Johnstone um um the school of improv improvisation. Um it's only called improv when it when we got influenced by um American styles of of play.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

But Keith is Canadian, is that right?

SPEAKER_05 4:44

Keith's Canadian, but he Oh, hang on. Why would I get this wrong, folks? Write in and tell me. No, I'm pretty sure Keith is British, but he lived in Canada and Canada's where he's done most of his work.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

But you studied under him for he definitely worked in the in um Great Britain, so Oh, but you because you worked with him for about 14 years and you were like his protege. So I'm just surprised that you don't know any of this about him. So why did he pronounce it wrong in the first place?

SPEAKER_05 5:17

He didn't pronounce it wrong, how dare you! Um uh yeah, so anyway, that's just it. That's just how it we did not you you did not know to stick the V on the end. So you don't bother?

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Impro is a totally different pronunciation to improvisation. I mean, even in even in the UK, you don't pronounce it. Well, I'm doing a bit of improvisation.

SPEAKER_05 5:38

Well, I shortened it to improve well, I don't know, James, and I don't think it's a big deal.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

I I do think it's a big deal, I think it's a very big deal.

SPEAKER_05 5:46

I think you're making something out of nothing. Anyway, so that's why it's called impro. For decades we called it impro when it was we were doing theatre sports in the 80s. Well, not I say we, but not me, because I wasn't born yet.

SPEAKER_06 5:57

Lie!

SPEAKER_05 5:58

Um uh yeah, so it's just that's it. And then, you know, with the influx of people who um studied at um I.O. and um the other ones, CB, so my brain just went um, etc. Well, you Americans tend to call it improv. So that's that's why we are now calling it improv more than we are calling it improv.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Ah, so it is, I mean, I I do have to go back and call you up on me accusing me of making something out of nothing. Because I never do that. Here we go. Because I never do that, and that's not what improvisation is about.

SPEAKER_05 6:39

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

You know, improvisation is about doing something you've already practiced.

SPEAKER_05 6:42

Why don't we call it imp? Imp. I like that. Or like my lovely friend uh Jacob calls it the prov. The prov which is now our new favorite thing.

SPEAKER_06 6:54

Hey, I gotta go, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go do the prov.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

The prov. It's that's it sounds like um, you know, high schoolers, um, teenagers in in uh like high school, it's like where they hang, you know. It's like, oh yeah, it's hanging down with the prov the other day. I like the prov imp. I like I like imp because it's just so silly.

SPEAKER_05 7:10

The imp has other meanings to say, so that's why you wouldn't want to use it. Yeah, an imp, you know?

SPEAKER_01 7:15

Like an imp? Like a show about improv? Is that what that means?

SPEAKER_05 7:19

No, an imp is a is a little feisty sort of furry like creature. Oh isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Yeah, maybe. I don't know. The imp I know the imp I know are like demons and stuff.

SPEAKER_05 7:32

Like thank you for clarifying the noises that I make. That's what they do. I'm sure everyone's wondering, sure, James, but what do they sound like?

SPEAKER_01 7:41

People will agree with me. Those those of us who play like, you know, Dungeons and Dragons or you know, whatever. I mean, yeah, it's that's an imp, you know, impish, right? Impish. Like you would say, you would say um uh Puck, you know, from Midsummer Night Stream is is impish. You know, he's like a little imp, he's mischievous or whatever. That's improv. Right? I think improv is very impish.

SPEAKER_05 8:06

Yeah, sorry, I don't know what you're talking about because I call it the prov.

SPEAKER_04 8:09

Shout out to Jacob! Jacob Ciberis Ni Purnell.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

That's a long name. Um yeah, because imps are like imps are conjured, they're conjured from hell, you know, and then they appear on the material plane. So in the same way that improv, you're conjuring up this little impish spirit of um mischievality and fun.

SPEAKER_05 8:39

Okay. Uh I see I see your point. Okay, let's do it. Yeah, that it's really let's you know, let's really knuckle down on this and start to to refer as Imp? Imp. I'm gonna do imp tonight.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

No, no, you're not gonna do imp. Imping? Because when you say I'm gonna do imp, I'm gonna do imp. I think you're gonna have a romantic night with David Bowie from you know when he's in um Oh phonely. The the we could the the The Labyrinth. The labyrinth, yes, you know no, that wasn't it? Oh yeah, wasn't he the impact? Wasn't he the imp king in that? In I've never seen I've never seen Labyrinth. What?

SPEAKER_06 9:22

I know we're just gonna stop this recording right now and immediately. And then we watch Labyrinth. Wasn't he the impact or something? Yes, I think he was. Yeah. So yeah, I think that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

I'm getting this is good. I like this.

SPEAKER_05 9:37

Everyone's not gonna hear everyone listening, going, oh, she's wrong, you're wrong, that's not what imp means. No, David Bowie wasn't that because uh, you know, there are some things that I don't know, don't feel confident and strong about.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

A goblin. It was a goblin king. Thank you. And I haven't seen it, and I still know that somehow. Goblin impoblin. Hey, I'm gonna go goblin.

SPEAKER_05 9:59

Anyway, I'm not gonna go and do imp tonight.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

I'm gonna go um imping. I'm gonna go goblining.

unknown 10:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Anyway, all right.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

I think we've I think we've pretty much discussed.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

No, no, no. We're gonna um I'm gonna go to a goblin cage fight um later.

SPEAKER_05 10:15

So funny, what's such a thing where you could go into a room and then you see goblins just cage fighting.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Cage fighting.

SPEAKER_05 10:23

Rap battle, goblin rap battle. That would be great.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

I see the Jerry the orc. I don't like him. He's such a dork. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:36

That'd be better than that. That'd be considerably better.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

But I am really curious though about yeah, I I mean the the origins of improv and impro in Australia. Um, because yeah, I did I did very much sense that it's kind of an old guard thing of we're calling it impro. And then this new kind of wave calling it improv. And I'm curious whether it's also more than just a name.

SPEAKER_05 11:09

Like whether it is a different mindset or it's a different Yeah, I think so, but the mindset comes from the style of play more than the name.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Yeah. Sure, but I mean I guess I'm I'm just thinking more about like that name. Uh obviously the name doesn't really change the mindset, but but more like that kind of wave or movement associated with that name, right?

SPEAKER_08 11:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Like if somebody kind of came into um the Sydney, the the Sydney um improvisation scene, like would they kind of be able to tell or have an idea of what these improvisers might be like based on whether they use improv or improv?

SPEAKER_05 11:50

No, no, I kind of think so. I think we've merged the two two words and they're interchangeable. So sometimes I mean mostly everyone says improv.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Yeah, mostly everyone says improv, right?

SPEAKER_05 12:00

So no, and also I think this is the same worldwide, is that people have um a a broad study of improvisation, so they'll it's not just one school or one um method of play. I think everyone, particularly when you get bitten by the in the imp bug, it's not even a bug, it's an imp bites you in the butt. Um, then you just start uh studying a lot of things or learning a lot of a lot of things. Well, yeah, I think because it's interesting and you want to see what else is possible. So then it there is no one sort of style of play that you might um adhere to, you'd probably you know, flick between one and something else.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

But are there other factions? Because I know in the acting world, people can get really um actors can get really attached to their school, right? I mean, I guess sorry, I I mean less about like a literal school. Yeah. Improver. Improver. Ah, that's a new one. Improver. Improver. Yeah, it's very funny. Improva.

SPEAKER_05 13:09

That's what they call it in Italy. I'm Italian, I'm gonna have to say do that accent.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

But do you feel like, yeah, there's there are different schools of improvisation, or do people kind of do a um a mix match of of lots of different styles of study?

SPEAKER_05 13:28

Um I can't speak for everyone.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

No, but based on your own observations.

SPEAKER_05 13:34

Um I don't think people do a mix match anymore, really. I think uh even though I just said you once you get bitten by the bug, you won't go to the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

That's what I was trying to corner you into.

SPEAKER_05 13:45

Um as your attorney. I think that's me. And sometimes I forget that I'm not like everyone else. Um or everyone else isn't like me. Um so more quickly. Um yeah, and also you maybe nowadays you learn what it is that that school is teaching you, and if that school is teaching you a particular style, um, or their or their um modules are uh you know the same, they've they've created their modules to be the same as some as another school, uh we'll just say improv Olympic, IO um or UCB or whatever. Um if they've created it in a simple way, then that's the the way you're gonna learn. But you won't necessarily you know want to go out and do other things because you if you're if you're happy um you're exploring the style, you're you're you're growing, you're discovering what you you're capable of as an improviser, then uh, you know, I think it's perfectly understandable that you'd probably go, no, I'm having a great time, so I'm just gonna do this. And you're not gonna suddenly go, oh, you know what? Let's go do short-form theater sports games, unless, you know, or you might, but but I think people really stick to um I think it's also people stick to their tribe.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 15:02

You know, you wanna yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

But it's also, I guess, it's less about I mean I'm guessing, or I'm offering the tribe now is less um centered around one uh key mentor, like yeah, Keith Johnstone, or say in the past if I Adele Close, Adult Yeah, Adele Close. Or or to pull it into like the acting world, you know, back in the day, you know, Stella Adler and stuff like that, right? You'd they'd have they would have their tribe under that person. I guess I can't, I mean, from my very narrow lens, I don't see that as much happening right now.

SPEAKER_02 15:36

Like I guess I agree.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Yeah, right. It's kind of more, yeah, more uh broad, different um ideas or concepts um that people are taught or get to play with. Um, I guess the festivals also really help in that kind of spread of ideas rather than consolidating people into this little um tribal thing. And I that sounds really healthy to me.

SPEAKER_05 15:59

Yeah, absolutely, because that's the thing that makes an art form develop and and um uh yeah, develop and grow and people become more exploratory, um, take bigger risks. Wonderful. Yep, great, good. Yep, we want that.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Then are we looking for another Keith Johnstone? Do we want another key kind of person to come in and be like, I have a new vision of what why? I don't know. I guess I'm yeah, good question.

SPEAKER_05 16:31

I mean But that's the thing I would I would say, well why you why?

SPEAKER_01 16:34

I mean you wouldn't no but what what if they could what if they envisioned a new way that nobody else had really thought about before?

SPEAKER_06 16:41

Great.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

And they wanted they wanted to call it imp.

SPEAKER_05 16:48

They want to call it the prov.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:50

Shout out to Jacob! Um yeah, sure. I mean, who's to say? You know, yeah, sure. Well, I think, I mean, but uh, do we do we need one? No, I would say no, because I think there's so much out there um for improvisers to explore, for performers to explore, that that it's hard to even you know sit on one um theory and method. But uh the it's like it's the same with acting methods, is that once you find something that you feel works for you and brings out um work that you're happy with or does or or you find interesting, or you you know, once you find that, then that's great, that's it. And if it one day it stops working with for you and you then you decide to explore something else, great, that's it. But there's no need to um keep moving just for the sake of moving, you know, trying things uh you know, if you if you're intrigued, absolutely go and explore all those things.

SPEAKER_08 17:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:57

Um and for me, the thing is that I I I'm intrigued and I love learning. Yeah, hence But I also have opinions about why things I think some things don't work and some things work better. But I'm also fully aware that it's it could also just be that some things work better for me. Um but yeah, you know, by all means Yeah, I don't think we need another um guru. But if one happens to come around and they want to give me a gig, then yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

Then then my question becomes did we need one in the past? Why do people gravitate towards gurus, you know?

SPEAKER_05 18:38

Um I say I use the word guru, but I'm I don't think that's really it. I think well anyone who dis who discovers something and then and then um commits their life to exploring it and to to you know putting it out there for other people, then I don't think I don't think um I don't think well certainly Keith Johnston didn't go, hmm, you know what? I feel like there's a need for a guru or there's a need for a for a teacher to go and do this thing and I'm gonna call it impro. Certainly not. I mean, you know, it's just he didn't see a gap, he didn't see something that needed to be filled and he was he was he was challenging um the status quo really and and um he played with concepts and ideas that interested him and he wanted to see what happened and and people just went this is great, it's this is fun, let's let's do it. And then it grew from there, but it certainly wasn't you know um it's like all things that that's trying to say here. Um you go into things that interest you and that you see um interests other people or brings joy to other people and you and you kind of develop that for the because the the developing of this thing, and we'll say it's an art form, um, is the is what's interesting and but you don't go into it already with the end picture. It's like doing improv scene. You don't think, oh, I know how this is gonna end, I'm gonna do this thing, I'm gonna build this um uh tribe, whatever, following, and then um you know people are gonna love me and remember me forever. You you don't do that, it's never it shouldn't be ego-driven from the beginning. It should always just be from curiosity. And curiosity is a driver.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

So when are you planning to change the name to Tiny Improv Co.

SPEAKER_05 21:03

For my tiny company. Can I say it's it's not like you never You're a rebel.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

Well, what you're it but so I guess aren't aren't you confusing the market by having multiple names, different names for the same thing? Um you're dividing our audience and market, Linda.

SPEAKER_05 21:20

No, no, no, James.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

Why not?

SPEAKER_05 21:22

Um uh why not? I don't think audiences give a hoot really about it. And the reason why the my little company, which is tiny tiny folks, which is why it's called the tiny improco, because it's basically me, um is called that is because impro sounds better with co. Tiny improco. Tiny improv co is a little bit, you know, it's a bit of a bit of a clunk.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:53

Uh yeah. And also it's a bit a little hats off. It's also, oh to be honest, it's not just that. For me, it's a little hats off to to my roots and where I started with impro. Um and a hats off also to to um where improvisation started in Sydney. I think I'm I mean we might have talked about this before but I feel like we've been in such a hurry to move things forward and to get and influence by the American market so much that we don't um look back and embrace the history of impro in Australia and how we wouldn't be here doing this if it wasn't for those people. If it wasn't for Limpeace and if it wasn't for you know um the the Impro Australia team so I I like I it's a little bit it's a hats off to that too because I I really think that that's something that we don't honour and value as much as we should.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Yeah. Well it's very American to kind of just look forward and embrace the new thing. Yeah it is it's that energy of of uh you know let's keep evolving let's keep moving forward let's keep making it faster stronger bigger yes more powerful than any man six million dollar man but anyway yeah you know it I think uh that's fun when you're in the that momentum of of you know moving forward with your creativity but but it's like oh hang on a second look at what the past has offered us um there's a gentleness about that about reflecting on the past and I think that's nice yeah well I uh it's I think yeah I I totally agree I think and I think it is more than nice I mean like kind of what you said I mean it it's also necessary it's necessary and it's important right I mean because you can just you know Australia has such an interesting relationship with kind of the UK and America right we kind of take things from both of them and sometimes those things don't quite um gel properly you know and and I think yeah understanding and looking back at uh people who were trailblazers who got us to where we are now you know helps us move forward because you can just move forward in a very um uh not inefficient but you know in an unproductive way right of just kind of moving forward just for the kind of what you were saying at the beginning like searching kind of for the sake of searching right rather than actually doing it of interest you know um you don't necessarily you you shouldn't really have an expected I am gonna land here in the future but knowing why you're doing what you're doing is important in propelling you forward and and figuring out what discoveries you want to make you know um and yeah to me that makes sense that because I because I did feel that calling it impro co I mean is a deliberate choice you know I mean and when you when I'm when I'm calling it um improv is also a deliberate choice I mean I guess because I I mean I guess I was more you know kind of brought up more with I guess the American style of improvisation so I'd never really experienced it being called impro.

SPEAKER_05 25:07

So to me it was like oh impro that's an interesting way of calling it and really that's the foundation of it you know in in Sydney so yeah I do think it's important and I think it's interesting which is why I wanted to bring it up so um but yeah thank you for expressing that you're welcome all right my loves I just did a quick search on Keith uh Keith Keith Johnstone just because I felt like oh no I'm not now not sure if he was born in Britain and he was um he was born in Brixham England uh God bless him and he um I'll read out I'll literally read out what it says here um uh Donald Keith Johnstone was a British Canadian educator and theatre director a pioneer of improvis improviser improvisational theatre he was best known for inventing the impro system oh was he okay never heard it called that before anyway part of which are the theatre sports okay good he was also an educator playwright actor and theatre director and this is from his Wikipedia page this is from Wikipedia where all knowledge resides um there you go yeah great and does it say um he couldn't pronounce the letter V and that's why he created it he called it pro it doesn't say that at all because that would not be correct no well I'll add it to Wikipedia later okay that's it so does that answer your questions James um yes I am wrong do you know so now you know now I do everything about the Prov?

SPEAKER_01 26:54

I know everything about Impro. The Prov is oh gosh that's a whole other thing now shoutouts Jacob uh the prov but no that was that was no that was really good I mean like this sounds like it should be like a 12 no maybe not 12 eight part miniseries well the prov do you shoot it like in 24 hours of it's like the pit called the prov right get in here the scene is failing fast yeah just people playing hacky sack for an hour um no but yeah because rhyme and associate 30 minutes of rhyme and associate quickly give him some word association back this week on the prof um but yeah no the original statement was I said it's improv not impro and I think I'm wrong yeah I think you proved me wrong it's both yeah well yeah but concluded yeah we all know that the audience already know that and they're like gosh why don't I bother listening if you laughed this long folks thank you but well you no no but yeah it's um yeah the statement is is incorrect because it's not just improv yeah there's a rich history of impro you know that um that that that was a foundational to im improvisation here in Australia um and yeah you can and yeah people do come from different schools different thought um different ideas and and ways of approaching im improvisation and if you're um yeah interested like truly interested in learning all those different ways then go for it you know absolutely underst I guess coming to it understanding like oh you know I'm I'm doing it for this reason of learning rather than I mean I don't want to you know um browbeat anybody but if you're kind of doing it for oh I'm just spinning my wheels and you know oh I don't really know what's going on or what to do. I mean I guess even then I would say it's still a good idea to be learning. Right? But yeah I think you're absolutely correct. It is impro. It is improv. It is the prov.

SPEAKER_05 28:51

It is imp it is mr I'm gonna mr tonight let's just make a sound.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Yeah I'm gonna go and do it Poe I'm gonna I'm gonna poe I'm poeing tonight let's end it there. Okay folks if you have anything you want us to just to discuss or you want to um just uh send us shoot us off a little email yeah you can do that at um lynda tellsjames linda lindatellsjames at yahoo.com at yahoo I think it was gmail at gmail oh okay well it is gmail okay good gmail don't do it I think yahoo died no well no I took yahoo out back and shot it what is the internet it's lindatellsjames at gmail.com yeah great and if you want to join my po group um it's lindatellsjames at yahoo.com um and also leave leave us a review um yes please those really help um at this stage we're not sure that anyone actually listens to our podcast but we'll keep going yeah because it says like 50 unique downloads but I also go to like the computer lab at the library and download it on 50 different computers so there's also that it's you yeah all right thanks everyone thanks for listening yeah next time